1000 Follower Special: Crazy vs Insane, Podcast Prep, Brave Note-Taking, and PKM Philosophy

🎙This is Norm Apr 22, 2021

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Shownotes

I got 1000 followers on Twitter! Yay! As a celebration, I put out an AMA on Twitter and to record the answers into one episode. And here we go!

Questions answered:

  • Podcast-related: How do I prepare for an episode? What's my podcasting setup? (By @codexeditor and @AndyNarracott)
  • What's the deck of cards on my table? (By @wanderuminating)
  • Can you describe your audience for memory/speedreading coaching? (By @cicatriz)
  • What's the difference between crazy and insane? (By @cicatriz)
  • What is the sound of one hand clapping? (By @TitusHora)
  • Should PKM apps have a stance about how we learn best, and ought this to be built into them? (By @plantey_, with responses from @Azeirah and @maskys_)

Enjoy!

The Art Oracle Deck:

Transcript (UNCLEANED)

[00:00:05]Norman Chella: All right. Hello there. This is norm with your host norm and welcome to the show, which is an audio blog of my website. That's the thorn.com. So normally I like to use this feed, this RSS feed for his podcast to really talk to myself. And in this episode, I want to do a celebration. I've reached 1000 followers on Twitter.

[00:00:27] Yay. Now, normally I wouldn't really celebrate that, but I think in the past year, Maybe year, year plus, uh, I found a new home on the internet, a digital home with some new found internet, friends and acquaintances who I'm just willing to talk to and be vulnerable with. So having a thousand followers actually, you know, subscribe to my madness, subscribed to my strange ponderings and random questions and all my shenanigans and podcasting and, you know, personal lodge management and everything else makes me feel.

[00:01:02] But. Warm and loved. So I'm just really happy that I could. You know, celebrate this, even though she's 1000, I just feel honored. So for everyone that is following me, thank you so much. And if you are listening to this now, I also thank you for listening to my show. So I did this tweet where I celebrated 1000 followers and I decided to do something fun.

[00:01:25] Ask me a question on any topic and by Tuesday, which is a little bit. Too late. Cause it'd been like one or two weeks, I think. Whoops, uh, I'll answer as many of them in one go on a podcast episode and let's see how many I can get through and post it up. So we are going in on edited. We are going in without any prep.

[00:01:44] Uh, the only thing that I had to prep was for the names of certain items. Uh, so I did have a quick first pass through the questions first, just in case, you know, there was any bad question or any question that I'm feeling uncomfortable with answering, but it's all good. Um, I had to search the name of a specific item, but I'll get to that in a bit.

[00:02:03] Uh, so let's get through some of these questions. So. Codex at codex editors, shout outs to you, Ian, for being an amazing person, he asks, what kind of preparation do you put into your episodes, reading up on your guests, material, watching videos, taking notes, et cetera. How does this factor into how you structured that episode?

[00:02:23] Do you have seasonal arcs or overarching questions you are trying to answer? Oh, this is a great question because I can totally do a massive blog post just on this. Alone, uh, because this is a number of questions bundled up into one collection. So let's just try to go through, um, each and every one of them.

[00:02:39] And I think a lot of the answers overlap. So I'm also go through them now. So thank you for the question codex. What kind of prep did I do or do I put into my episodes? Normally it depends on the show. If I have a specific narrative, I want to satisfy. The narrative is either emergent or I have it pre-plant what do I mean by that?

[00:02:58] Emergent is when I have noticed, or I've paid attention to this potential guest and the narrative emerges from my interactions with their content. So like you said, reading up on guests, material, watching videos, taking notes, et cetera. I normally spend around. Let's see. Five hours to go through their stuff.

[00:03:19] Uh, and I do it quite fast because I, I speed read a lot and I kind of have a very expensive memory palace. So it's a bit, uh, it's a lot easier to do. So, although I do take notes all the time, as most people who follow one of my shows would know. And how does this factor into how I structure my episode?

[00:03:36] It's not that it factors into Holly structure, my episode. It's more like how it factors it factors how much. I add a lot of details and potential tangents into that episode. So I have an overarching narrative where I would have four to five bullet points to cover what I wanted to do in a span of a specific time period.

[00:03:56] So let's say one hour, one and a half. And then from there, I would be thinking about potential questions from there. Um, what I mean by that is when I have that overarching narrative, what happens is I have questions from zero. The questions from zero meaning questions that are not influenced by any content that I am consuming from that person.

[00:04:19] So if I know that person by name and I know something like that, I'm like, okay, what does this person do? What are they up to? What's the recent thing that they published and what are they thinking about, et cetera. And I have those base questions. And then from there I add more evidence to those questions.

[00:04:35] So I nest post shadows to people in Roam community. Uh, I nest more questions. Uh, underneath those questions and add evidence to support those questions, to see if they're worth doing or they're worth asking. Uh, so the more that I read up on guests, material watching videos and taking notes, the more that I add more and more potential questions.

[00:04:56] And as a result, I would have a giant, shall we say, outline of questions where you have general narratives and within those narratives, you can think of it as like a table of contents for a book. They each have questions to see if I can guess predict what the person may say, or if I cannot guess it might be some kind of insight that I'm willing to factor in into the episode itself.

[00:05:20] What happens then is that I structure the episode from those questions, not from the material. That's is the important part because the golden rule for me, the golden rule for podcasting is always humanized the guests. Well, the golden rule for a conversational podcast. So structuring the episode comes from how can I humanize the guests as much as possible while putting them in a spotlight where they can show off their specialties, show off their observations, show off their insights, et cetera.

[00:05:49] So, yeah, you then spiral into different types of, and I think I can save that for another episode because that is, uh, Th I, I love exploring types of questions. So like challenge your questions, exploratory questions, um, you know, how, what, why questions and, and introspective questions. But those can go into more detail in that time.

[00:06:11] I would, I would tag them by their type of question. And from there I pick and choose which ones would be the most important. I also. In my head and make a mental note of in which questions or which sections do I allow for tangents to happen? So once again, the structure then emerges, right? So it emerges at different phases.

[00:06:35] One is a, from zero. The next is as I'm reading their material and questions will pop up. And the next is structuring the episode when I pick and choose specific questions. And once I ask those questions, mid recording, Then the structure will emerge because I can then have this like, You know, this decision making process in my head, where do I want to tangent here?

[00:07:00] Do I want to hear that story in more detail? Do I want to stop and then continue on. Remember your questions are your safety net because Indiana you're having a conversation, right? It's not like you have a script every time you meet someone new. So. If you're able to do that, then I'm pretty sure you're able to do this.

[00:07:13] And do you have seasonal arcs and overarching questions you're trying to answer? Yep. There are overarching questions, seasonal arcs. Um, if this is more on the format of a podcast itself, it depends on the show. Sometimes I would have maybe a theme for a couple of episodes in one go. So for one of the shows Podlovers Asia, I would have a theme by country, right?

[00:07:36] A few people from a specific country. I have a few from India and they are amazing people. Shout outs, uh, shout outs to them. It's amazing, amazing, highly insightful people to talk to about podcasting in India. It's fantastic. And that's normally very seasonal or that's normally theme based. I have an intention of reaching out to specific people and that just what came out of it.

[00:07:59] So yeah, I hope that answers your question codex. The next one is by Tanya at wander ruminating. Uh, so she asks, what is the name of the deck you are shuffling in one of the salons, please. So I joined. Uh, I normally joined inter intellect salons, and sometimes you would see me in the zoom calls and I am shuffling these cards.

[00:08:23] So let me do some, a little bit of card ASMO so let me just,

[00:08:36] so you would see you hear that actually a lot when. You're on a call with me and it's actually my it's a bit like my fidget spinner. I need something to do with my hands while I'm talking to people sometimes. So I have this deck around next to me. So it's not just a deck of cards. So, um, it is what it is, what I call it a well like a fidget deck, but the actual name is, and I had to search this up, uh, before we started this recording, the official name is art.

[00:09:05] Oracle's creative and life inspiration from great artists. Made in 2017. Uh, so to describe what it is, it's really pretty much a collection of 50 cards. And on the face of 50 cards, uh, contain the names of amazing influential artists in humanity. So I'm just going to name a few examples. You'll solve our daily, uh, Jeff Koons, Michael Angelo, public Picasso, Louis  and you know, William Morris, uh, some IOE.

[00:09:44] Oh yeah. I think, I don't know her Kanji, but, um, and there is a. There is an illustration of, of a mix or amalgamation of the artists as well as the greatest masterpiece. So you would see, for example, I'm looking at this now, uh,  in like her herself and. Herself within her art. So a lot of red dots, et cetera.

[00:10:13] So I'll probably probably with this episode, if you look at the blog post version, I'll take a picture of the , um, as an example, and you'll see what I mean, but I'll just continue on here paired with the name and the illustration of the artists and their greatest works come three Epic grams or three pieces of prose.

[00:10:35] Um, that serve as life advice or creative advice that are split into three categories. Now I forgot what the categories are, but let me see if they have this in D no, they don't. Okay. I also can't find the, uh, the, uh, the, the box right now. So I can't really explain it to you, but it's centered around at least from what I can tell, um, observations, insight and creativity.

[00:11:04] So. As an example, cause some of y'all you always card is of her in there. Red thought painting and herself. And it says the following things. One, your soul is composed of the same dots as the universe to distinguish yourself from your mirror image and three showed him your hallucinations. So yes, I tend to have this deck on my table when I'm working.

[00:11:30] Just so that when I'm thinking about something, I would, you know, like, just like now, like sometimes I'm just playing a couple of cards and you can hear me playing with it right now. It's just like, you know, the clicking thing in the back. And while I'm thinking, sometimes I would just take out one card and see how it, how it provokes me.

[00:11:47] Right. Art is meant to be provocative. So art provokes you to seek a certain question or our provokes you to find a certain answer or to ask a certain question either. And this card I, at first I thought it just looked pretty. So I bought it. And then when I, when I opened it and I was like, Oh, this is a lot more interesting than I thought it was because I thought it was just some, you know, some like Insta poetry level pros, but actually it's not that bad.

[00:12:11] Like at least it actually gave me some level of insight to a certain degree. Uh, and it's just also a great fidgeting tool. So yeah. Thank you, Tanya, for answering that question or asking that question rather. Now next question at Andy narrow cots, shout outs to you, Andy, a great guest on RoamFM, uh, highly recommend that you check out his podcast all about, you know, uh, sustainability in the world and social enterprise.

[00:12:38] And he, I believe a consultant on clean water or, or sanitation, et cetera. Uh, but I will link a, a link to his podcast, uh, in the blog posts or in the show notes down below. At Andy says, what's your podcasting setup? Such great sound. First of all, thank you, Andy. I'm really proud of that. It's a really, really simple sound to be honest or a really, really simple podcast setup.

[00:13:04] Um, so I have a sure. Or should I sure. I guess S H U R E M V seven, uh, USB dynamic microphone. And that is connected by USB to my laptop. And that's actually pretty much it. And I recorded an audition and I do all my, my recordings in zoom. So I use the person's zoom recording audio because most of the time they don't really have the set up for a proper podcasting setup.

[00:13:36] If they, I do, I would request for a double ender. I would request for them to do a local recording as well. And then I would splice them up. The magic. And I think this is where you want to hear the magic is not in the equipment. The magic is in the plugins, and this is why I use Adobe audition because, because I normally stack up to like five to six track effects on my recording, at least for my audio when I'm producing an episode.

[00:14:07] So I will, here's what I will do. I'm going to do a section of my answer starting from now, and you're going to hear it, the raw audio, and this is the raw audio for, to show MV seven. And I'm in a normal I'm in my brother's bedroom. So, you know, of course there's some sound treating here and there's like some sound, uh, what do you call that?

[00:14:31] Like foam? Foam squares thing when you want to call it acoustic foam. Yeah, there we go. English law, uh, acoustic foam all the way in the back, but it's pretty far away. So the effect is not that great. And I do not have acoustic foam in front of me, so there may be some reflection. So you'll be hearing my raw audio now.

[00:14:50] So contrast that with how you've been listening to me before. So how you've been listening to me before is my voice with track effects. I've been testing this in and out for like five months, trying to figure out what my track effects are. And it's, it's, it's quite a journey to figure out your unique track, fixed, set, like your stack.

[00:15:09] And now back to the normal, amazing, wonderful podcast sound. That is my own unique voice put behind shore and be seven. So honestly, Andy, it's just a and V seven connected by USB the. The, the interesting thing is already a huge hack is knowing your track effects, right? It's knowing what your highs and lows are.

[00:15:31] It's knowing when, how much to compress, it's knowing your, the level of your adaptive noise reduction. Like I need a number of, I need a certain level of adaptive noise reduction because most of the time, whenever I have calls, I have my air-con on and you can hear the rumbling, the rumbling and the tumbling of the low base of the air-con.

[00:15:50] Uh, as it's blowing cold air. Uh, it to my face. And I don't want you to listen to that when you're listening to my conversations on any of my shows. So yeah, that is pretty much it. Um, I can have a, I'll look at, let's see, uh, I'll probably do another episode or I'll probably do another. Yeah. You know, I've always wanted to do this thing where I wanted to dedicate it in number of this is norm.

[00:16:18] Episode two only podcasting, just like many tips here and there maybe like series, like what codex is saying, right. It's just like a season of 12 episodes of only podcasting. And then the next is like a season of some under random thing and that'll be fantastic. And I think one of the things I'll cover is definitely like interviewing your questions, how to be a good guest, how to start a show.

[00:16:43] Um, Uh, hacks for your voice profile. So, you know, which includes this, right? Like what traffic track effects are best for you, et cetera, et cetera. So thank you, Andy, for that. Uh, there is a, there's another question on here. I'm going to leave that to the last, because I think that will take the longest, so I will leave that for last, but for now, uh, At a psychiatry's or I think a Cecil tree is a secretaries.

[00:17:12] Uh, Ryan Mueller, uh, shout out to you, Ryan for being an amazing guest on a RoamFM. One of my shows. Can you describe your audience for memory and speed reading, coaching, and bonus for fun? What's the difference between crazy and insane. So let's go through D first. Question first. So can you describe your audience for memory and speed reading coaching?

[00:17:33] Uh, so I don't really advertise this that much because I've been keeping it on the down low. A lot of. Landing page works still in the process. I'm still trying to figure out the funneling, et cetera. And I've been more on the backend trying to help other coaches setting up their practice. And that's been, you know, pretty successful helping them with their audio books and their podcast episodes as well.

[00:17:55] But, uh, I am a. Super linear certified coach. So super learner as part of the superhuman Academy. And that is led by Jonathan Levy, a very, very interesting person to talk to when it comes to memory and speed reading, coaching, um, he has done huge amount of work in. Accessing or making memory palaces, uh, creative markers and, you know, CK training and speed reading techniques, much more accessible and much more shall we say, uh, put in a realistic fashion, uh, for the, for the public, because he doesn't, you know, Exaggerate his speed reading numbers.

[00:18:36] Uh, I do not have high speed reading numbers as compared to my fellow coaches. I do have speed reading numbers, definitely. Um, and I don't always do active speed reading. I, I do passive speed reading. So, you know, it really depends on the person, like what do you need, uh, for, for the process of memory and speeding, like what you need.

[00:18:55] But if I want to describe my audience for a coaching, um, I've, I've talked to a number of like potential students and I found a few common patterns between them. One is their passion or their desire to be autodidactic. So if they are willing to try out the course themselves, because I am a coach for the masterclass, that's super learner masterclass.

[00:19:17] To help them go through the course while at the same time be their, you know, their, their cheerleader as well as be the pillar of support for when they want to figure out a custom version of memory and speed reading training program for themselves. Because that is how I went through the course. I found success when I picked, picked and choose or chose what worked best for me.

[00:19:36] And I designed my own games to help me train for memory and speed reading. They do not have that in that course, that is not a good thing or a bad thing, but. My behavior within that course was that I now have access to this resource hub, curated for becoming an extremely creative person and an extremely imaginative person.

[00:19:58] And then using that imagination to remember your entire life from names to faces, to interesting things that they've said, people have said to you to numbers, to stats, et cetera. Right. Two speed reading techniques. If we want to filter out the noise through the world, you want to speed read through as much of them as possible.

[00:20:16] You want to remember as much of the good things as possible, and you want to forget as much of the bad things as possible, right? So speed reading techniques, or there's a proper way to do it. How can you increase it's bit by bit? It's a bit like going to the gym, right? You're going to go bit by bit, but you want to know the techniques properly because if you get bad form.

[00:20:35] Then you may be left dissatisfied instead of a bad, bad, when you're dead lifting. Now you just have bad memory because you'll be remembering everything, literally everything, right. Even the bad things. And I don't want you to do, to do them. So a common pattern is you have a desire to be autodidactic. You have a desire to want to learn.

[00:20:53] You have a desire to, to want to carry that passion. Even if I didn't exist. When you look at memory, when you look at speed reading, when you look at, I want to remember what I have just learned because I get so excited remembering you have to have that fire. I need to feel that fire, I need to, I want to want to help you with your memory.

[00:21:15] That is like a huge common pattern. And that's. That kind of attribute is found in Autodesk didactic people. Another one that has emerged recently is the notion of what I call brave note takers. So no takers are basically people who take notes, obviously dough, but on a more fundamental level, no tickers are basically people who write down or pin down their thoughts or think by writing down are pinning down things.

[00:21:48] They look at different mediums to help carry them, or they look at different mediums as a vehicle to pool their thoughts, to arrive at a conclusion. Right? That's the act of note. Take it. It is, it is just that right. To be honest, we don't need pen and paper like we did. If we had infinite memory, we don't need to write anything down.

[00:22:14] Um, write anything down. We just needed. Uh, a way to arrive at that, but writing it down on pen and paper means we can now activate our other senses, our eyes for in this case, to look at the same information from a different angle and arrive at their faster. Hence why we take notes? What I mean by brave is to what extent are you going to write down?

[00:22:38] Everything to what extent are you just going to say, eh, that's easy. I'll just PRI pendant though. No, no, no, no, no. Brave means a certain level of vulnerability, a certain level of recognizing that you may have weaknesses in your memory, a certain level that maybe your creative markers, which are basically creative markers are basically like interesting imaginations that allow you to help remember something because they're associated with them.

[00:23:05] So for example, if I met someone like, okay, Right. Um, the artist formerly known as Prince, what's the first color that comes to your mind. Boom. Purple. Right? That is an association. A creative marker is the association between two interesting points or two interesting facts between two entities in your life that you've observed and your brain has naturally made that connection.

[00:23:30] And now when I bring up that color purple later in the episode, you are going to think back to Prince. Why? Because. You have assigned purple as a creative marker for the artists formerly known as Prince, right? Even his song. Purple rain. I mean, that's pretty amazing someone. I, I love, I love listening to that song, like a lot kind of unhealthy obsession, just because he's just so emotionally invested in this song that it just, he just pulls you into it.

[00:23:58] But that's, I think a story for another day, I think that's, um, that should be. I really want to do an episode on, and I started the technique and the guitar stank face, right? The one that goes like, Oh, when you do a solo and he feels so good, um, that this is probably an episode for another day. So, you know, autodidactic brave note taking and the other one is the other one, the other common pattern, or the other attribute I would love to find is perseverance.

[00:24:30] And I bring this up because a number of students, when they go through Superliner masterclass, they, it's a, it's a huge investment by, I'm not going to say it's easy. I'm not going to, I'm not going to guarantee you. If you're, if you're with me, you're going to double your speed for speed reading all the way up to 500 words per minute.

[00:24:51] And you can remember everything at 85% retention rate. No, no, no. It's not like that. It is not easy to reach up to this point. I spent every day, practicing memory and speed reading for like two years straight. And I've taught, I've toned it down now. So I'm not as fast as I was before, but I still naturally do it out of habit.

[00:25:14] Sometimes whenever I read through an article. That involved, like reading articles that are relevant to my work. And then from there tracking them, right. It's like a workout log. Like I want to track the amount of weights that I carry. If it's the same, like this, I want to track the amount of articles that I speed read.

[00:25:30] And from there, figure out my retention rate and then figure out my WPM from there. Right. It is perseverance. It is the concept of being able to wait for results. While it's all the way out there, far out in the horizon. My job as your coach is to help you or to guide you or to walk beside you, as you walk towards and arrive at that horizon.

[00:25:56] I want to help you reach the end of that journey. If you can realize that if you can accept that, if you can understand that, and you're starting from zero, maybe this is your first time learning about memory and speed reading. Then you are my perfect audience. Like I would love to work with you because there's nothing more exhilarating than being able to reciprocate that kind of energy.

[00:26:21] That energy is key to remembering everything in your life like names, numbers, faces. And sometimes maybe if you have weaknesses in memory, I can help you with that. Then that's my audience right there. Fantastic question Ryan, seriously, and a bonus for fun. What's the difference between crazy and insane? I have, you know, I've been thinking about this question a lot, actually.

[00:26:49] Um, although I've been switching it out with madness, but let's stick to this question, the semantics of this question. Let's, what's the difference between crazy and insane. I like to think about it as. Relationships to self and relationships to society. Normally crazy. We, we have a notion of crazy because that definition is implanted in us by an influence.

[00:27:16] Most of the time it's external. We deem, for example, we deem stripping out, down to your boxers and walking out in public to be crazy. Right. We deem someone who is talking to themselves out loud in public as crazy. If you walk down the street and you see someone as crazy, you. You inadvertently avoid them or you protect yourself, right.

[00:27:42] You ignore them. Right. You, you recognize them as crazy. And therefore you are not at that kind of energy. You're not at that kind of level. You, you recognize the gap between yourself and them in terms of stability, et cetera. And you do your best to make sure that that is respected like that border is there.

[00:27:59] So maybe you. Walk through the other side of the street, and then you don't, you know, meet up with them because maybe they are really are crazy. And you're trying to protect yourself. Crazy is in relation to society. At least that's how I see it. Crazy is in relation to society. Crazy is when the thoughts that you have that are uncomfortable, that you are facing, that you are willing to face, that you're not willing to face that you're having a conflict with.

[00:28:28] And your head and you're articulating it outwards in some way. If you're expressing it, outwards is met with either disgust or discomfort, because crazy has the foundation of it's relationship between you and society in there. And that is how the definition of crazy came about. At least that's how I feel, right.

[00:28:54] Like I, like whenever I say I'm crazy, I'm actually saying like, I'm crazy. And then brackets, because society has been teaching me that what I'm doing or what I'm thinking right now is crazy. It's like that insane is similar. The only difference to me, at least that's how I see it is. Is not my relationship with society, but my relationship with myself.

[00:29:20] So if we dissociate, if we dissociate our consciousness between me and the entity, myself, so me and Norman, if we take away like the first person myself and I'm talking about myself and then I dissociate myself and then we have third person Norman, so me and Norman, I don't trust Norman or I find. Norman crazy.

[00:29:47] Therefore, I, the resultant fusion of first person, me and third person Norman put together is a D individual Norman that is not in sync or is not synchronized. Therefore, this individual is insane. So there's this like crazy relationship between first person, me and, and, uh, and third person him. They're not mixed together because they find each other disagreeable.

[00:30:22] Their thoughts are not in the aligned. They, they are not in sync, et cetera. And as a result de resultant of that formula, right? Your, your soul, your soul, the, the, the, what's the word for it. Uh, the aggregation of everything that encompasses you, it encompasses you low English. Isn't my first language, but it, you know, all that put together and you have insanity because insanity is a continuous battle between your cell visit, right?

[00:30:54] You're your self plural, first person, me third person, him and sometimes even a second person yourself. When you like most of the time you start thinking from your most atomic self, which is your first person view third person, third person yourself is when normal. Most of the time you're reflecting on your past actions.

[00:31:19] And second person is when you can look at yourself in the mirror, it's you yourself in second person view the relationship between those three entities is when. There are questioned. And if they do not come to a healthy conclusion, if there isn't, if there is not peace, and if there is war between those three entities that make up yourself, there are elements of insanity present.

[00:31:46] So yeah, that's, that's how I see the difference between crazy and insane. The difference between the crazy, crazy insane is just which entities are, which, which relationships. Between entities are being questioned when you use these words. Right? So crazy is me external. Me and society insane or insanity is internally me.

[00:32:14] Right. Internally me second person, me third person. Me. So me, you and him within my head. And that is insanity. So yeah, that was a great exploratory question right there, Ryan. Thank you so much. I hope you can use that in some way. The next one is from at Titus Hora. So Titus says, nobody seems to know. Or nobody seems to know the answer to this question.

[00:32:40] What is the sound of one hand clapping? Oh man. Isn't clapping technically a two hand activity. Like, I mean, I'll try it like, like I'm like slapping my fingers to my, to the ball of my thumb, like the bottom of my Palm right now. And it doesn't sound good at all. Like I'll try it and try to do it as close to the camera, the microphone as possible.

[00:33:08] I can't really,

[00:33:13] because if you look at, I mean, if you, if you try to clap right now,

[00:33:20] it's the slapping of flesh between two similar surfaces over and over again. I cannot fold similar surfaces on my hand to do one hand clapping. Like my, my fingers, like what was the word for it? The structure, I guess, of my fingers, like the bone edge, right on my fingers. When slapped against the Palm of my hand, same hand, by the way, um, it doesn't result in the same surface area.

[00:33:53] It doesn't result in the same strength. It doesn't result in the same flexibility because you also need the flexibility to actually make a good angle, to actually create a great clapping sound. But I guess not. Um, there's that I cannot make a one hand clap. I think a one hand clap is pretty much a series of small attempted.

[00:34:19] Whoops. I just turned on my voice thing from my phone. Oops, my bed. They hear that in the recording. I know that the guy's unedited, um, I think a series of, uh, one hand claps are pretty much. Pretty much smaller micro slaps of the flesh that are too inaudible for the human ear. That even if you put them all together, it will result in a very quiet clap.

[00:34:48] From each of your fingers, as opposed to the result in Titan giant clap from two hands instead when we zoom out in a more micro level. So yeah. You know, you know, Titus, I do not know dancer. I'm really sorry. I don't know how to describe the sound of one hand clapping. I think it's pretty much the, yeah, it's just like micro slaps or micro bursts between two, two surfaces of flesh put together.

[00:35:14] And they are just too quiet for the human ear to recognize. So I hope that answers your question in some way. Okay. And the final question is I'm saving this for the last one because there resulted in a, an a long thread. So I want to, I want to recognize all the people who have, who have contributed to this thread, and this is going to be a big one.

[00:35:38] So let's see, just take a swig of zip coffee. So at plan T underscore or Ethan, Ethan planted for Ethan plant. I hope it's one of those. I think it's Ethan planting asks should PKM apps or personal knowledge management apps have a stance about how we learn best and art. This to be built into them. Surely knowledge management with a.

[00:36:08] Air quotes can be called a quotes thinking and there are better or worst ways to think. This is a very, very fascinating question to deep dive into. And I could probably do like an hour and I need someone to like do this back and forth with me because I feel like I feel like conversations will be a very good medium to, to give me enough gunpowder to go further into my answer, because I don't have, I don't have a clear cut answer for this at the moment, but.

[00:36:35] Let's just start off with reading some of the tweets as a result. So, so Ethan further adds on, right? He says, he says the following for relevance. Last I checked none of Roam Research, Athens Research, obsidian, et cetera, have yet adopted a clear view on this that is obvious from within their respective software.

[00:36:57] And. Uh, a, a reply, uh, by Laura, uh, at Xera says Andy in checks work in progress, article and space repetition system does, and Ethan replied. It does. And he's good at that. Really appreciate how his first public demo of orbit made the case for its usefulness. And for him, the tool isn't just for someone's use it's for very specific context that many people can benefit from.

[00:37:22] So it's like niching down to a specific. Context that increases the value of its use, which I think it's quite standard. But does that mean that they have a stance about how they learn best? Because I feel like this is, I mean, when we say, when we say, how do we learn best or how we learn best, we become subjected to philosophies of how a human being learns.

[00:37:45] Because most of the time we have tested and explicit knowledge. We have insights, we have knowledge, we have wisdom. And then we have methods of acquiring those elements. Which are then found in these tools, right? These apps like Roam and Athens and obsidian, et cetera. And this is when it gets into a little bit strange because, because can we seek the philosophies of how we let's say we, the average individual learn best through their backend?

[00:38:16] And I want to say, I want to say yes. I really want to say yes. Like when you say should PKMS have a stance about how we learn best. Yes. I think we should. I think we should, because once you have a stance, you know, best where like the person and like your role as someone in this space is that you are a very well aware of what is considered friction in your thinking process, in your thinking workflow, knowledge management, the, the, the concept of management is subjective to the individual.

[00:38:49] Like the way that I knowledge my knowledge, the way that I manage my knowledge, it's a tongue twister, right? There is very different to how, how you may manage your knowledge. Some people prefer a GTD for a tasks like their task management system and some people don't right. Some people prefer to go freeform.

[00:39:07] A number of users in Roam Research would use interstitual journaling. Which is fantastic. It's a great point, but not everyone does not. Everybody wants a time log. Uh, some people might want more structure or more order in their daily nuts. Like they start off, they open their journals or their apps or their books, et cetera.

[00:39:24] And they have specific categories and headings and they must adhere to those categories before they start their day. That in itself is a form of knowledge because what, what knowledge is more important than writing down your feelings and thoughts because emotion, your, your emotional stability is a form of knowledge.

[00:39:44] It's knowledge about yourself, right? So that is that's, that's one way of thinking or going about it. It means that order, like order and chaos, this spectrum of ordering chaos in one system for. Articulating their thought process must be expressed in all the limitations that humanity provides, and these limitations are seen or packaged in the form of tools and services.

[00:40:15] Now, Ethan brings up a great point because when he said none of these tools have yet adopted a clear view on this, that is obvious from within respective software. I think it's because we are so early in this space. Dean when I, when I say this space, I mean, not only P cam, but like the tools or thought space that, that a lot of the software, it looks very, very, very, very similar, right.

[00:40:36] The come from the same basis. And it's the same as it's the same as trying to figure out. Why a lot of websites look the same. And then once you know more about them than you see how deep they go. The only thing that I think is a little bit more clear on this, and I want to put ethics aside because one, I don't know enough about Athens to make a, you know, a great point and two I'm aware to ethicist and open source clone of Roam is that Roam level of transfusion and recall of content is at block level.

[00:41:10] Whereas obsidian is focused more on page level, although. Uh, page level and file and folder organization. So that has some level of stance in how we learn best, because part of learning is then managing that learning, because if you don't, if you don't manage your learning, how do you know if you've learned something right?

[00:41:29] Matt, part of managing is recognizing where your faults are, what you've learned, your reviews, your successes, your results, recognizing and filtering out the noise, et cetera. So. Yes. I would think that there should be a stance and it should be the second part of the question is what it's, what makes me think a lot more.

[00:41:53] And I don't know if I should try to answer this in this one episode or maybe in a, in a conversation with somebody else, but, but let's just pause that for a bit. There's a second part to this thread. Um, uh, Kiefa at mass case or mass case. Wrote the opinion, the optimal mode of thinking varies for each individual.

[00:42:16] Tangent. How would a PKM that enforces a method of learning be different from school? All right. So yeah, there's some overlap here, right? So like, you know, if anything, I've got lots of talk to Kiefer about this. Uh, he continues, partially agree with you, Ethan. Uh, I think there's a balance tools you use already shaped you Roam for instance, in crunches, bottom up learning and using Zettelkasten the magical word.

[00:42:40] And it's easier to structure your ideas that go with free pros. Like you might in obsidian. Although I may do a slight disagreement with there. Free pros is free because it's free to be done in anywhere else. So it's not just limited to upstate and you can also do free pros in Roam, although, uh, but I get your point is it's a fantastic point.

[00:42:59] Uh, I've still yet to fully embrace full on thinking and upstate in personal experience right now. Like I'm using IAA writer on iPad to do a lot of freeform writing, like, like no holds, barred, whatever it goes. Just arrives on the screen. And then from there I transferred to obsidian from there. I, you know, compile it and then move it to Roam, like for its final destination.

[00:43:25] So, yes. Uh, and then there, you know, more and more talks on UX, uh, and the effect or the influence of thinking on the individual as a result of your experiences with tools. So, so when we try to thread this back, yes. PTM apps have a stance. They should have a stance about who we learn best. Actually, they need to have a stance.

[00:43:47] I actually think they need to have a stance because that can make you look more like a cologne or a rip-off, or it will make your messaging a lot more confusing when you are being compared to, with other tools in this space. Large workers of people who are obsessive note takers or even brave note takers, rather they're very fickle, right?

[00:44:09] They, they, they want to, they want to dedicate themselves to an app that can embrace them and provide them a home. But once they do, once they do find that hope they will protect it, like with their life at this talk with, uh, with Bohan, uh, on RoamFM. And we were talking about learning identity. You, when you question someone's learning methods, they will battle it.

[00:44:32] Right. They will throw hands, right? You're about to you better protect yourself or you better up your grill. Cause like when you question, someone's learning methods that is so close to one's ego, that they might feel that it's a threat. But only the most humble of individuals will recognize that the semantics of the conversation dictate that they are trying to help.

[00:44:54] They are suggesting something. You have the choice of ignoring, accepting for asking for more information, or even finding a way to do some level of self-introspection where your, your own stance of learning can be questioned and therefore upgraded. Right. This is becoming to the point, where do we outsource the narratives for how we learn things or observe things in life to other things, other apps, other individuals, right.

[00:45:23] Do I go to  to learn something? Because I see success in how he learns things and observes things. Do I just copy him because I want the same, or I want to emulate the same level of insight that is going about him now. Here's the thing. You're not Andy. You are not anti Matousek, what you notice or what you've observed from his digital garden is notes for him as his work on orbit, still fantastic, by the way, it all ties down to his brain, right?

[00:45:59] It all ties down to how he views the world. There is only so much he can articulate internally outwards. It's just that. He is so prolific and he's such a great researcher, an independent researcher that a lot of his thoughts are documented, but not all I would like to challenge that sooner or later if I ever have a chance to talk with Andy, maybe on RoamFM we'll see spinoff show, you know, I'm still looking for nicknames for that.

[00:46:29] Although codex said like backlinks backlink, uh, just backlinks. I think that'd be cool. I was also thinking thought space. That's also a pretty interesting name, but I'll figure it out another time. He has his own stance about how he learns best. Some of his notes have resulted in influences on tools for thought at the moment.

[00:46:52] So he's going to the opposite road, right? Do I want PKM apps to affect my own learning methods and have them inbuilt or do I want to have my own stance on how. I learned best and have PKM apps arrive at my thinking stack to challenge me, to provoke me, to contemplate me, like, to make me contemplate how I think to upgrade my own learning methods.

[00:47:22] I'm more towards the second one, but then that further encourages the motion that. PKM apps should and actually must have a stance about how they learn best and have this built into them. That is why, even though I have RoamFM, I'm still looking at other apps. I'm looking at other apps that are exploring other mediums.

[00:47:44] I'm waiting for an audio Roam. You can't do that. Like, if you do, if you can, like, if you can do that, if you can do that, I will, I will. I will. I will. I will build, I will. I will buy you 20 beers. I bet those lovely words, right? I would dedicate a podcast episode two, your tool. If you can build an audio Roam, you cannot.

[00:48:13] I don't think you can, because that means you are forcing autonomous city or granularity onto an audio file. And we can't split that full on yet currently with how audio files are uploaded online on the web. So we default to podcasts which are completed. Audio files. Think of this as podcasts as the obsidian of audio files on the internet, each MD file.

[00:48:42] Or each markdown file is complete. Right. So, yeah. So anyway, my answer to this super long question is a  stance yes. About how we learn best and all this to be built into them. Yes. I think they should have a stance, but, but, um, I need a caveat. I would want to add a caveat to this question. PKM apps should have a stance because we should have that stance exists to challenge how we learn best.

[00:49:16] And we pick and choose how we implement it into our own learning methods so that we don't outsource our learning methods to somebody else completely. Because if you've been learning the same way as an admin to check all your life, because you've been learning or you've just been copying everything he does, if he's gone, who are you?

[00:49:36] Right. Am I just going to call you Andy from no, no, I'm not. I love his insights. I love it. I disagree with some of them. It's fantastic. I have some level of borders or I have a sanctuary or bastion around the way I think. And I think I was doing, I think that's why I started doing memory and speech and coaching because I have.

[00:50:04] Pillars that support how I learn best. So when I was building my Roam workflow, I really didn't look at other people's work clothes. Like I bought in course, and everything that was just to learn the tools like the features. But then I built everything from myself and I just pick and choose what was everyone doing?

[00:50:22] So, yeah, surely knowledge management can be called thinking and there are better way or better or worse ways to think. Yes, there are better or worse ways to think. And I think that's more like going from zero to one and one to 100, there's like a difference there, there are probably that are probably anti lists, right?

[00:50:42] So like lists of what you should not do if you're considered thinking once you know that, then you can go exploratory. I now know what not to do when the thinking. Where can I go from here? What are the options? Let me build my own system and you try it out and put a paper or whatever, whatever you find friction.

[00:51:01] And then you're like, Oh, what app can help me here? And then you find Roam or like obsidian, something like that. Oh, right. Like I've, I've tried to search and then I, I like Martin files. I like them saved on my cloud drive. Oh, oops. It didn't help to that. Boom. You have, you now have your app, so yeah. Great question, Ethan.

[00:51:20] Thank you so much for that. I would want to actually expand this out to the RoamFM account and we'll see where it goes from there. All right. So that's pretty much it for a lot of the questions for 1000 followers. Thank you so much for everyone participating in this. And I will save it here. If you're interested in anything that I'm doing, you can always just check out.

[00:51:47] That's the norm, not calm. I should be. I honestly should be pushing out the coaching bit more often, but there's something amazing about just conversations with people because. Indiana. I'm using my memory techniques to remember my conversations move a lot of podcast episodes. It's getting a little bit hard.

[00:52:08] So, so some are spite from that is fantastic. So episodes like this are great. So thank you so much for listening and I will see you in the next episode. Bye bye.

Tags

Norm

Norman Chella is the Podcast Rainmaker, Polymath in Progress and a very strange writer. His creative pen name is N.T. Cloever. You can find his words right here.

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