Please enjoy this transcript of my interview with Julian Hayes II!

Julian is a human performance and health optimization advisor as well as an author. He helps high performing entrepreneurs and executives to create more energy and maximize their longevity and human performance without the guesswork so they can become superhuman in life and business. This is done through leveraging epigenetics, technology, and systems-based thinking. This trilogy of amazing aspects is what makes Julian stand out from the crowd. That really got to me, this triad of interesting aspects of what he’s doing. So I reached out to him and here we are.

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Norman Chella: [00:00:03] Julian Hayes II is a specialist in human performance and an optimizer of health. He is the AntiFool.  Hello there. Welcome to the show. This is your host, the King of all fools. Norm. I’m here to talk to you about health, specifically health optimization.

Now it’s a lot more than reading up an article on positive habits to follow and doing a little bit more repetitions in the gym. We are talking about pure optimization of physical health from many different angles, from down to a precise level, especially from the angle of genetics and in this episode we will be talking about obtaining great human performance with Julian Hayes II.

Julian is a human performance and health optimization advisor as well as an author. He helps high performing entrepreneurs and executives to create more energy and maximize their longevity and human performance without the guesswork so they can become superhuman in life and business. This is done through leveraging epigenetics, technology, and systems based thinking. This trilogy of amazing aspects is what makes Julian stand out from the crowd. That really got to me, this triad of interesting aspects of what he’s doing. So I reached out to him and here we are.

In this episode, we talked about his origin story, how he went to medical school and dropped out one year after to become a writer. How he made it his mission to pursue the grand ambition of becoming a writer in an environment where risk adversity is a lot higher than usual. And also health optimization. We talked about epigenetics, what it means and how your health is your most valuable currency.

Julian takes you on a journey through his coaching program, going through all kinds of steps, methods such as genetic testing and determining what best suits your needs. Because we are all unique individuals.

We are N of one. And that means that there is only one unique solution that fits our bodies. But first we have to know more about it. Julian is here to help you with that. And without further ado, let’s play the fool and learn from the wise by diving into my chat with Julian Hayes the II.

Mr Julian Hayes, the second, right, not junior. The second. Welcome to the show. How are you doing?

Julian Hayes II: [00:03:08] Man. I’m doing awesome. I am making the best of this qurantine life right now. Ah. You know, just everyday it seems the same almost. So it’s a very interesting way of life right now.

Norman Chella: [00:03:21] Yeah, it is. And we’re trying to make the most out of it,  by well being stuck in our homes, but having amazing, interesting conversations like this. And I just want to bring up something that you brought up, right before we started this episode. But. Could you tell me about that monologue that you mentioned when you were talking to the bank teller You wanted to make sure that they say your name as the second and not junior.

Could you tell me about that? Now I want to know about this five minute monologue that you’re talking about. Please.

Julian Hayes II: [00:03:50] Yeah. So I’ll give a cliff notes version of it because a lot of it was a little rambling,  I think I like to ramble sometimes because, I think I noticed like when I was a little kid, I would notice politicians and they were asking a question and then they would just give this long answer for something that was a simple yes or no.

I was like, why are they doing that? And then it just seems like the people forget that the question that they asked about in the first place. So my, my driver’s license, birth certificate, they both say the second. Right. I like to read history a lot. I noticed that,  it was like King Louis, the fifth, and you know, and all these Kings and princes had these ,names in it.

I never saw junior really. Growing up, I like to pretend that I was royalty because mine said the second, so I felt like a Prince, you know, I was like Prince Julian or something, and you know, so this, and then also, I think the second sounds better. It sounds a little more proper. And just Regal. I just felt much cooler than junior when somebody said junior and I am, I was probably like 25 then.

I don’t know why I felt like a six year old so this feels more manlier to me just to say the second. That was part of the crux of, of the whole thing and just the whole flow. Julian Hayes, the second. To me, the second just flows better and  I’m a man of words, I love words.

There’s a lot of meanings that we can say  get the same point across with some words or just better in certain situations.

Norman Chella: [00:05:17] Definitely, and it also makes your name much more memorable because I remember when I saw your name the first time, I was like, well, the second right. You didn’t write jr right. It is actually like two. I’s like just like Roman numerals. So your name pops up a lot in my head when it comes to a very memorable name.

Julian Hayes II: [00:05:32] It’s very noisy in the online world now, and just  in general now. It’s very noisy. however you can get that extra second or two. I think you have to do that and it’s only going to get noisier as more people migrate to the internet in this online world now.

Norman Chella: [00:05:49] Do you get a lot of moments where people actually pause and stop and say, Whoa, second, like the second, like…

Julian Hayes II: [00:05:56] Yeah. If, if, if, um, if, if they are, if they want like a full name, then they’ll, they’ll look up like. Okay. Yeah. So I will get a pause, you know, I don’t, I don’t approach people say guys call me Julian Hayes the II, you know, you can just call me, you know. You could just call me Julian, but, uh, you know, um, if they want the full name, then I’ll give them the full name experience, just because people have messed up before.

If I didn’t have the second , my dad got mail from me and he’s like, what? What, what is this why somebody sending me a book? I’m not a writer? So that’s, that’s one of the reasons, but it would be kind of funny though, you know, I started, you know, trying to talk all proper and say that guys should call me Julian Hayes the II.

Norman Chella: [00:06:46] Well, I respect that though. Like I, I really do respect it because you really do own the definition, right? The meaning of the two in your name.

Julian Hayes II: [00:06:55] It’s a sign of a really appreciation for, for my dad. I wouldn’t be here. I wouldn’t have the opportunities, that I have now if it wasn’t for him and his hard work and six situations that he overcame. It’s like my form of the salute.

Norman Chella: [00:07:09] Let’s dive into the origins of that salute. How did young Julian Hayes the second grow from a Prince to actual royalty? Could you tell me how that the, you know, mix of chance encounters, comic books, mental models, and women get you to where you are right now? I’m taking all this description from your website, so tell me.

Julian Hayes II: [00:07:31] So young Julian was a… Now young, so I was an only child.  I was into comics a lot playing video games, but I was still just active enough playing basketball. I was good at basketball. Well, so that helped, um, a lot in terms of my social development. I wasn’t just too much of one of those, just those gamers who have no social skills at all.

So I’m a little bit of a hybrid. Going through that, um, I guess a big part of kind of like where I am now is shaped from that moment. As like a teenager where I began to realize that, I had this notion in my head that once you get to 30 years old. You start to go downhill in terms of life quality in your health.

There’s this curve and then you’re at the peak when you’re 30 and then you’re just slowly taking that swooned down until, you know the curtain call. It comes for you.

I was playing basketball one day and I don’t know why this guy’s there all the time, but. I don’t know why this stuck out to me and this older gentleman, he’s playing basketball with us.

He’s out running most of the kids and I’ll play them. Not me though, by the way. You know? I’m way too prideful to let that happen.

We get done and I, you know, I asked this guy, man, like, how are  you doing this? You know, you’re over 30 by a good amount right now. And he’s like, Oh, it’s just simple.

You know, age is irrelevant, you know?  it’s about how you talk to yourself, how you treat yourself, the food you put into your body and just moving everyday. And I was like, that’s a very basic answer. I was really expecting something a little more sophisticated here and that little sentence, it didn’t really seep in until years later.

And I’m still digesting that little sentence right there. What that truly means to really take control of your destiny, not just your health, but your destiny per se.

Over the years, I, um, go through college and I, yeah, it really transformed my body to take care of my health.  I come from the spectrum of health where I was, I was remarkably mediocre and in terms of my body and so super skinny and all of that. So, and then I just really developed this passion for health and just transformation. I decided to go to medical school and I go to New York and this is where like, I imagine if I get a book written, of me one day, of my life.

This is like a big section here, right? It was only a year but. It was so many transformations. So many just aha moments because I’m from the Southern United States in Nashville, Tennessee, and it’s quite different then New York city. Very different. I get to New York and I meet all of these artists and characters.

Everybody at the coffee shop is, they’re writing a screenplay. They have a dream. Everyone’s going to win an Oscar to let you tell him. And I really liked that because there’s a part of me that was always, living vicariously through a lot of my more creative friends. I always like writing. I like music, but I was just very quiet and I just stuck to, I’m stuck to business, you know, the sciences and stuff like that.

But there was a creative side of me as well. I had a very chance encounter in the lower East side. I remember this conversation. I don’t know why. Again, I was drinking, drinking, and Capriana it was happy hour.  The first question she asked was like: why are you here at 3:30 and I’m like, why are you here 3:30 you know, why are you drinking?

Sure. And I was like, I’m in  medical school. She’s like, shouldn’t you be studying? I was like, everything’s recorded and I just 2X everything so I can have more time to enjoy the city. And she’s like, Oh, that’s, it’s pretty impressive. And so she tells me her job and everything. And so she’s working for herself.

She has her own business. She’s able to travel in Rome, you know, wherever she wants. And I’m like. Oh, you can do that. That’s pretty cool. Cause I don’t come from an entrepreneurial background. Right. Everything’s blue collar. A lot of factory,  workers and truck drivers. Yeah. And so I was like, wow, you could do that.

Yeah. And so that just stumped me. And it was like the greatest revelation in my life for some reason. And I remember sitting in a long anatomy exam, it’s like three hours long, halfway through everyone else’s looking. Everyone else, everyone else is sweating, like probably like just stress out at the questions and everything.

I’m looking up and I’m like, Oh man, I don’t think I’m in the right room. I don’t think this is going to be it until I go home. At summer. I just wake up in the middle of the night and I just look up at the sky and I’m just like, I don’t think I’m going to go back. I’m going to be a writer and I’m going to still be involved in health and with the coaching and advising people and still stay on top of the latest, you know, revelations that’s going on in health.

So I am pumped up the next day, right? I can’t wait to shout this like I got a megaphone. I’m telling everyone  I figured it out. This is what I’m going to do. You know, you would think that you’re gonna get a lot of congratulations. It’s going to be confetti going out everywhere. And I get crickets.

I get, you should go get a drug test. Um, what happened? What are you doing? And so I’m like, Oh man, wow. Well, this is the opposite of what I expected. And so, you know, there was a big lesson in that as well. But, um. That’s kind of the origins of it, of kinda how I got here. And just throughout the years, I just continually have been writing and just growing as a person, growing as an advisor.

And you know, I ended up on the AntiFool right now.

Norman Chella: [00:13:02] Now you are, well, the source of wisdom for this episode. So I would say that you are. Not a fool in any way because now I’m learning a lot from you. Cause that’s a huge step to take because let’s break that down a little bit. So in the middle of an anatomy exam, okay, three hours in, I’m assuming, did you do the questions, by the way?

Julian Hayes II: [00:13:19] Yeah. Yes. I, I did good. Anatomy’s a strong subject of mine. So, um, I was, I was okay. I have a philosophy of slow down to speed up. So, you know, I never needed to be the first guy down on a test so I can just hang out. It’s all good. I had my dream, I had my, I had my protein shake and stuff.

It’s all good.

Norman Chella: [00:13:35] Okay. So you’re fully prepped. You did the anatomy exam, you were perfectly fine, and then you had a revelation in the middle of the exam. You went back and then you slept. And I guess your body made sort of like a subconscious decision that you will become, well, the truest form of yourself as a writer, still in the realm of health.

Julian Hayes II: [00:13:57] Yeah. Yeah, I still finished out the semester and everything, but I think at that point I have already, you know, I thought I went to school with two feet in and I think at that point I had one foot out of the pool right now, and I was just having like maybe my left foot in there while my rifle was already getting dry, getting ready to move on to something else.

Norman Chella: [00:14:16] When you are announcing that you are going to go on this path to becoming more of a writer, right. Then as someone just graduating from medical school,  you said that there were crickets where, where was this lack of support coming from? Was it from your, your lecturers, your friends or family?

Julian Hayes II: [00:14:32] It was, it was, um, it was friends and family, and I think, I don’t think it was just that they weren’t supportive. I think it was more that they were just shocked and confused because if, you know someone being a certain way for 20 plus years and then all of a sudden they just wake up one day, say, Hey, I’m going to write, you know, I start my own business.

You know, where did this come from? Because I never told anyone that I like to write, or I want it to even try to write. My writing was terrible at first. Don’t get me wrong, but I never really told these people some of my dreams of like, you know, traveling and that kind of stuff, you know?

So, um, I just kept that to myself, so I can see how it’s a bit of a shock.

Norman Chella: [00:15:17] And the, shall we say, the contrast between you going off your path to becoming a lot more entrepreneurial,  something that is very, very different from say, the blue collar working environment. Was it hard to convince, say your friends and family too? Well, understand or accept that you’re going to be in a very different, shall we say, mindset or environment than what they’re used to?

Julian Hayes II: [00:15:38] Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Because, um, you know, the, the typical. I guess understanding was that Mmm, you either graduated from like high school, grade school and then you go get a job, or you go to university and, then you get a, like a career job. You know, that’s something, and I think they see that as security.

Whereas, you know, with entrepreneurship and even just freelancing in general, there’s a lot of uncertainty because  you are responsible for everything. And, um, that’s scary. They don’t know anyone who’s done something like that, you know? So I think they thought that maybe that kind of stuff is set aside for certain people and just not like us, you know?

I guess over the years I’ve really been working on trying to not get as frustrated with people when they don’t see things that I see because I have to understand that they haven’t lived those experiences to even understand, nor do they like maybe have the capacity in terms of like the inner work on themselves to pause and think.

Okay. Okay. How has this person seeing the world? So I just took it on my shoulders to have more compassion for them to understand that they only see the world a certain way and they don’t have that ability to see the different options available.

Norman Chella: [00:16:59] Yeah.  I’ve always observed that as a form of risk adversity that isn’t really, shall we say, not questioned throughout a standard narrow education system where we go from, you know, grade school, primary school, and you go to high school, you graduate from college or uni, it’s a single track and you get used to that single track.

It’s comforting because you assume security on graduation, this degree or the scroll or whatever you get at the end of it,  will get you a ticket to a shelter and money and home. So I guess that, seeing you going off of that is like a red flag for them. Like, Oh, crap, what happened? Julian please

Now if we want to dive in, into when you decided and you started becoming a writer.

Julian Hayes II: [00:17:47] Uh huh.

Norman Chella: [00:17:48] You said specifically before, when we were talking about trying to determine an outline, for like different kinds of writing that you do, and you brought up something called, becoming a superhuman entrepreneur executive, right. What’s your definition of becoming a superhuman?

Julian Hayes II: [00:18:03] I think when we hear the word superhuman, and we might think of, you know, things like Xmen, for people who are familiar with the comics and everything, you know, a mutant. But you know, in a more practical sense, cause I’m a fairly practical dude. I think being superhuman is where you’re more emotionally, you physically, you’re mentally and you’re spiritually, superior to what the average person would be. It’s not a negative thing to say that. I look at it as this is someone who’s more evolved, you know, there’s a standard average definition of what we expect from people.

And I think the superhuman is one who goes above and beyond that, they’re not satisfied with just being good  they’re looking to be great.

So they crave that extra 2% edge in life and in all endeavors.

Norman Chella: [00:18:50] I take it those attributes that you define a superhuman by, you’re able to recognize that in the people that you meet or even recognize the potential that they can reach.

Julian Hayes II: [00:19:03] Yeah, yeah. And, and the thing is it’s, like one of the big things to look for is your mindset. I think that’s, that’s the very first pillar to look into is your mindset. Did you even have the capacity to think bigger. You know, one thing is like aging. Like I say all the time that living to 150 years old with great health as well, that’s going to become the new norm sooner rather than later.

I’m pushing to be 200 at least. And some people would be like, Aw, man, that’s cool. That’s exciting to think about. You know what if, but then some people was like, nah, it’s not possible. You know? You know, research says the average age is 77. It’s just that ability to say, what if.

What’s next? You know, that’s the seed that’s planted because then you’re open to possibilities. You know, a superhuman, they focus on the possibilities, not the problems, not the limitations, you know, all the tools and the, the fancy gadgets that you can use to really enhance your health. That’s secondary to really harnessing your mindset.

Norman Chella: [00:20:08] Yeah. It’s like that lifelong battle of why versus why not like when you want to question something, you ask why, which means that you’re focusing your attention on the limitations and why not is. Well, let’s try it. Right. Let’s go beyond what has been predefined beforehand.

Julian Hayes II: [00:20:24] Yeah. Strangely enough, I was just asked that question yesterday on a show, and the guy was like, would you say why or why not? And I’m just like, definitely. Why not?

Norman Chella: [00:20:34] Yeah. I mean, we’re on this journey to do why not? Right? Like.

Julian Hayes II: [00:20:40] Yeah. Yeah. As far as I know, I’ll only get one shot at this as far as I know. You read enough books, especially enough like history books and you see just how old the world is and you’re like, wow, all of these crazy things transpired to get us to this moment.

I don’t know. That energizes me, you know? That energizes me. And it also gives me a sense of urgency and intentionality to act with each day with.

Norman Chella: [00:21:05] Yeah. That’s like a certain weight right behind so many years of history, like centuries, millennia of history, and that’s why it got to you to where you are. It got you to the opportunities presented to you and you can actually choose where you can go. So

Julian Hayes II: [00:21:22] Yeah. Because I, I’m sure people, a hundred years ago, some people they would, they would kill to have some of the situations and opportunities that we have. You know, like a hundred years ago, we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now.

Norman Chella: [00:21:35] I think it wasn’t a hundred years ago. Where are we at? Wasn’t there a war? *laugh*


19…1920 Whoa. What 1920 would have ended, right. Or one would have ended.

Julian Hayes II: [00:21:45] World

Norman Chella: [00:21:46] War 1,

Julian Hayes II: [00:21:47] yeah yeah.

Norman Chella: [00:21:49] I think it would be too busy losing lives, right. Fighting for battles for other people. I would just say the amount of opportunity seemed bleak at that time, if, especially if you’re in the trenches with a rifle in your hand.

But right now, if we’re in an age of, well. The fourth industrial revolution, lots of many different kinds of tech coming in, and at least from your side, I do want to hear, any new forms of advances in health, in medicine,  especially in your specialty, which is, let me get this right. Epigenetics, which is a field that I know absolutely nothing about, right?

So I am, I’m going to play the fool. I’m going to play the idiot, right? And I’m just going to say. Julian, what’s epigenetics and why should I know about it?

Julian Hayes II: [00:22:36] Okay. I’ll paint a picture and I think that’ll be better than just giving a, um, scientific definition. So  do you want the scientific definition? We’ll get that out of the way. Epigenetics means, epi means above, so above the gene. So that’s the scientific definition. So your genetics and the epigenetics is above that.

So we’ll get that out of the way. So, a better way I like to think about it is think of your genetics as like the hardware of the computer. The epigenetics is like the software, and that’s the informational input into that, right? And so that’s going to determine how that’s going to operate as a whole.

Well, we look at this from  a health standpoint. We have a certain set of genes that we are born with and those don’t change. However, the different inputs into our system on a daily basis,  that’s going to determine the epigenetics that’s going on within our system. And so like the food you eat, the thoughts you think, the environment that you’re in, the sleep that you do.

All of those things are going to play a part in determining what genes get turned on, what genes get turned off.  You want some genes to be activated, some genes to be off, kind of like a light switch when you’re flicking on and off. But the bulb, the color doesn’t change in that.

So the bulb can be your genetics and flipping off and on is the epigenetics aspect. And that’s determined by the actions that you take each day in your life.

Norman Chella: [00:24:09] So it’s heavily related to the information you receive from your environment, as well as the result in actions that you take

Julian Hayes II: [00:24:21] Right.

Norman Chella: [00:24:21] And how it affects your body and it’s, I guess it’s like the different bits and pieces that make up your body, but just the genetics, but what influences it? Is that, is it, is that the best way to describe?


Julian Hayes II: [00:24:34] Yeah. You’re essentially performing alchemy.  Stark contrast here. So eating fast food, this is much different. Your body is going to register a hamburger from McDonald’s much differently, than it has a head of broccoli, you know?

And so, you know, we recognize that, you know, maybe from a physical standpoint, what happens over time, right?

You might gain weight and everything, but on a cellular level. Changes are also happening. You might not see it, but those things are, but those things are happening.  Epigenetically your body recognizes that broccoli.  It knows what to do with that information. It knows how to process that information.

It’s going to signal a cascade of positive events there.  Something like exercising,  like high intensity or moderately intense training, I think three to four times a week, that’s going to positively change up to 30% of your entire genome in your body. No, 40% of your entire genome in your body just from something like that.

And what that does over time  you’re basically stacking the conditions in your favor to live a very long, prosperous and healthy life. It’s not just lifespan, but it’s also health span that you want to think about. Because I don’t want to be a hundred years old can’t move, can’t think for myself or anything like that.

I want both of them.

Norman Chella: [00:25:52] If I want to work on my, shall we say my epigenetic environment, should I first, know my current genetics first or is it okay for me to assume that? Okay. I mean, I recognize, say bad habits or bad sources of information, or do I need like a combination of both?

Julian Hayes II: [00:26:10] Yeah. You know, if you really want to maximize everything to get super specific, of course, you know, doing some sort of genetic tests to get your information that’s valuable because then you can see  your genes and then you can have even more precise recommendations to make.

But I wouldn’t let that stop you from doing things today. Like using olive oil in your food, that’s obviously a good choice. That’s it. Epigenetically beneficial. So, yeah. Eating a clean diet  in a sense.  Going to benefit you. from an epigenetic and genetic standpoint. You know, we call that neutral genetics and Nutrogenomix.

So you are doing a lot of benefit right there, sleeping the right amount, exercising, um, doing some form of mental training, whether that’s meditating. Or praying or chanting, whatever form that you train your brain that is benefiting you from a cellular level.

So we know to do those things right. Now. The thing with when you get your genetic code is  you go from good to great because you can get even more precise with like what types of fats to eat. What’s the right amount of protein, what am I more susceptible to in terms of, um, like how my brain works, like how my hormones works and that kind of stuff.

Norman Chella: [00:27:24] Oh, wow. Okay. So that’s where the optimization comes in, because like you have the standard, um. Shall we say, methods to essentially lead a balanced life, but you’re going for like the full on. Great, amazing, powerful life right here. Oh,

Julian Hayes II: [00:27:41] I’m super, I’m super greedy. I’m super greedy, and I think I’m super greedy and, you know, we have this great information available to us. You know, there’s, guys much, much smarter than me. Luckily, you know, I, I surround myself with people where I’m the dumbest guy in the room, you know? So we have all this great information available.

This is the stuff that can take us, you know, to being optimized and enhanced, you know, and there’s so much more. And the funny thing is, with regards to our genetics, our genome was just mapped out, I think   maybe 10 years ago, I don’t remember. And I think we only know maybe 30 to 40% of all that yet. So there’s much more that’s going to come in terms of how we can truly,  leverage,  knowing our genetic code into living this optimize and limitless life. That’s one thing that gives me hope.

I don’t know how it is over there, but in the States, you know, if you look on our, like Twitter and stuff, you can see like different people argue about nutrition. Like there’s vegan camps, there’s carnivore camps. There’s paleo camps. it’s essentially like a gang.

It’s like gang life. I imagine. You know, I don’t know too many people in the gang, but I imagine that’s what it’s like. Um, you know, so, and I think that those questions are totally irrelevant right now. Those are not really going to advance humanity. It’s just arguing, you know? Those questions were relevant maybe in like 2005 you know, we’re in 2020 you know, we know enough now that each and every one of us that are in this world right now.

We’re truly a N of one, you know, there’s nobody like us. We’re 99 point I think 9% of something like that, the same. But that 0.1% is so huge, that there’s truly no one like us, and we have to really operate in that mindset that, you know, we’re N of one.

Norman Chella: [00:29:40] And what do you mean by N of one? Could you describe that for me?

Julian Hayes II: [00:29:43] Yeah, it’s just that there’s no one like you,  N of One is I think it’s used a lot in research, literature and everything. And when they’re doing like studies, They’re just like, this is just a sample of one. Pretty much. You know, there’s, there’s, there’s not multiple samples.

This is the sample, you know, there’s no one like Norman, there’s no one like Julian.

Norman Chella: [00:30:01] Oh, okay. So like a single case study…


Julian Hayes II: [00:30:05] Uh huh. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. There’s, there’s only one case study of you. It’s you. And so you know, your life experiences. You’ll have a, you’ll share a lot of similar ones as me, but ultimately, you know, your life experiences are going to be truly unique, um, to you.

Norman Chella: [00:30:21] Ah, okay. That’s fascinating. I’ve never considered an N of one to be involved in health optimization. So props to youfor that connection. That’s pretty interesting. Cause I’ve heard of it before, like I was previously in, I was like in medicinal chemistry as part of my university degree, but I, I, I changed degrees.

You did write somewhere else as well, that you’ve mentioned that a new paradigm of health is needed?

Julian Hayes II: [00:30:47] yeah

Norman Chella: [00:30:48] Could you explain to me what kind of paradigm is needed in the world of



Julian Hayes II: [00:30:53] Part of that is what we’re talking about. Um, part of that is what we’re talking about.  Jumping back on the mindset thing is, this is from a few engineer friends when I first heard it,  I want it to be an engineer in university, I think for about 72 hours.

And then I was like, I’m going to move on from this. You guys can have this and, but I did hear a term, it was called systems mindset.  they didn’t say, mindset. What am I thinking? They said, yes, this systems thinking or something like that in engineering. And the opposite of that is binary thinking. When we think about the paradigm of health a lot of times.

I think we steer toward making very simplistic, conclusions to things. It’s very A to B, but you never factor in everything. a more systems mindset is where, you know, there’s various inputs to your system here. You know,  the system is us in this point, our human system, our body, that we’re the system right now. And there’s various inputs.  An example with our health. I think a lot of times when somebody will say, man, I want  to lose weight, I want to improve my health. What they’ll do is they’ll just think of exercise and a nutrition plan. Here are your macros. Here’s your exercise plan, go lift weights three times a week.

That is great. That is good. But there’s a lot of different factors that ultimately needs to be kept in mind. You know, for one thing, you got to think of the, the second, third, and fourth order effects of the plan that you’re making.  What are the consequences of this nutrition plan? You know, is it just focus on the short term with no money in the longterm, because ultimately that can do more harm than good in the long run.  The long run is looking at things like how’s it going to affect your hormones? How’s it going to affect your day to day life? Is it sustainable?

With your preferred method of life, or is it going to cause a lot of disruption to your ideal daily flow of life? So it’s asking more questions. It’s being more curious to see if this is truly best for you, or is it something that maybe you saw work for somebody else, maybe your friends it worked for.

So it’s in a nutshell to be more curious when it comes to our health. Also, I know different countries are different, and in the States we have this, it’s sick care over preventative care. A lot of times before you can get a lot of help with our system.

Yeah. You have to be sick. You have to have a quote unquote disease.

Norman Chella: [00:33:32] Oh, okay.

Julian Hayes II: [00:33:33] Yeah. Before you can go again. You know, the necessary tests, all right. And that kind of stuff. A new paradigm is where you’re being more preventative, to even mitigate, to mitigate these things from happening to, you know, a lot of the things that are prevalent in the States now.

These things are preventable easily. A lot of them are lifestyle related, and I understand that sometimes it’s information. You know, just not having the necessary information like my family, I come from a family where there’s a lot of diabetes cardiovascular problems, and it was just the information, share it with them.

So I understand that. But, you know, it’s flipping that model of being more preventative instead of, reactive, you know? And that’s a lesson just in life in general is too. Think ahead, forecast, for those days ahead. That’s in a nutshell, kind of part of the, the paradigm that I see with that.

Norman Chella: [00:34:30] That’s going to be fairly fascinating to deep dive into when you’re doing, say, like a huge study on one single person. Say when you’re about to coach someone and you have, well, you do testing, like genetic testing to figure out, you know, what is the most optimized plan or method or procedure to bring them from 100 to 1000.

Cause we know we’re not, we’re not going for good. We’re going for great. So we’re going to go with the big numbers. Could you talk me through the process of how you coach someone? So say, I read your writing, or I read your book, I’m convinced of your new paradigm of health, but I want to take part of it.

I lack information and I reach out to you and say, Hey, Julian, can you, can you coach me? What happens?

Julian Hayes II: [00:35:17] There’s different levels to, to everything, and so. The, the first thing you know, is we got to talk for like 60 minutes or so, maybe 90 minutes or so. Just have a conversation and to see how our chemistry is together because  it’s ultimately a partnership.

I’m not telling you anything to do. We’re partners in this. The first thing. When we go from there, it’s what I call  the method more like the arise, I call it arise, right?

So you want to assemble. Then we’re going to review, then we’re going to implement, then we’re going to sustain, which is a form of support, and then we’re going to evolve because there’s no end point when it comes to optimal health. You’re just continually evolving, becoming even better.

Yeah, and so that first stage. You know, the assemble, you know, we’re taking as much data as possible. So with everyone, at a bare minimum, we’re doing a pretty detailed health and lifestyle assessment to get some deeper understanding of like your exercise, your personal patterns, your stress management, your mindset, your nutrition.

We’re doing what I call more of like a health consciousness scale to kind of see what kind of beliefs that you have right now existing around your health. And then I’m doing, like the genetic testing. Then we send a kit so they can swab off and then we’ll go to the lab. Um, and then we’re doing,  for most people, you’ll do like a lab exam.

I’ll put an order in for you to go to, a facility to get ’em to get some blood work done as well. That’s like the baseline stuff right there. Some people, will use wearables. They’ll have a wearables  depending on which one they have. You can analyze their daily heartbeats.

So you’ll get over the course of a month, I think it’s, if my math’s correct, like 300,000 heartbeats,  don’t quote me on that.

But it’s a lot. It’s a lot of heartbeats right? You have a lot of this initial data, and this is telling you a story. And this is kind of what I looked at, like  just, we’re forming a book right now.

This is  we’re getting a manuscript right now. We’re seeing where you have these variations with like your heart,  where do you in these heart things. This is more like increases of stress. You know, so for maybe an entrepreneur or business owner, we see why do you have stress a lot of times between like 10:00 AM to 12:00 PM what are you doing there that’s raising like all this up?

Norman Chella: [00:37:34] Hmm.

Julian Hayes II: [00:37:35] I didn’t notice that this causes that much stress in me. Maybe I can like have like an assistant or maybe I can start outsourcing this. I didn’t realize it was a stressor to me.

You know, and that’s the power of precision. That’s precision wellness in a nutshell right there. You know, it’s, um, I’ve been trying to lose weight, but you know, and I, I just, I’ve been cutting all my carbs and then I look at their genetics and I’m like, Oh, you know, I’m looking at your genes here and is looking like you have more of a high probability to actually lose more weight when you add more complex carbs to your diet.

And he’s like, Oh, I never tried that. I always thought you had to just cut cut carbs to lose weight. And he’s like, Aw, man, you know, or it’s like,

I have trouble sleeping and you know, I have my blue blocking glasses on. Uh, I cut my screen and everything off. I was like, and then I look at their genetics. I’m like, Oh, you have more of a high sensitivity to grains. And so he’s like, what does that mean? And I’m like, well, how much grains do you consume a dinner? He’s like, Oh, I eat a bunch of grains at dinner. And I’m like, Aw, well that’s why you just look at the wall at night because for you, you’re having this increase in what we call glutamic acid, which is increased glutamate, which is good during the day, cause he’s excitatory.

It keeps us alert. But at night you want this other neurotransmitter called GABA, and they work against each other. And so for some people, depending on their genetics, they’re going to have an increased likelihood of when they consume these in grains and sources of food with glutamate in it. They’re going to have this super high spike of glutamate.

And so what that’s going to do is keep them up at night. So little simple modifications like that can help your story. If you want to get even more detailed, you can measure people’s brain wave activity. This is like a call the QEEG.  you can do, what’s it called?

More advanced hormonal tests. There’s neuro mapping and psychophysics tests. And so those, that’s like the, probably the, the top, top level, that’s like two days worth of testing. But you know, if you’re gung ho, this is more what I call the more enhanced stage where  every single facet of life is going to be measured.

So we can work on that. But yeah, so that’s in a nutshell kind of, what I do, what we do. That top stage, then I have  support. And so there’ll be more medical people then because I’m not a licensed doctor. So I can’t do things like that peptides and, prescriptions if you needed it or that kind of stuff.

So that’s when I have the partners to come in.

Norman Chella: [00:40:03] Yeah. So you do have like a whole range of partners to help you with different

Julian Hayes II: [00:40:08] There’s a central facility that, that people at the top level at the VIP, the program that they will do, they would go there first to do the testing and all that. For the remainder we’ll just be working together. Just cause I legally can’t do it, I’ll have them go down here.

I’ll take care of there, accommodations and all that, so they can do it.

Norman Chella: [00:40:28] Has there, has there been like a common pattern between all of your  clients? Like recently, I’m assuming your target, or at least your intended audience, is those who are high performing and they want to reach even higher levels.

So we’re talking about people who are extremely ambitious, most likely entrepreneurs, most likely, those with great positions of power. Lots of responsibility. Has there been a common theme between, between all of your clients so far that you noticed?


Julian Hayes II: [00:40:54] Yeah. And I think even, um, even the ones who are on the rise, you know, not the ones who are super established, even  the early stage entrepreneurs and business owners. I think we all experienced what I call the dark sides of success.

A lot of the podcasts, a lot of the books… They kind of glorify success.

It just sounds all, it sounds all rosy and it’s not really that way. And what I mean by that is, you know, success can be lonely. The road to achievement. It can be lonely because, for example, with myself, when I decided to take this journey, I had a lot of my friends couldn’t really connect with this new life, so I was essentially losing some of the connection points with those friends.

Some of them I’m still friends with but as I go more and more along this, we live in such totally different lives. It could seem like your world’s getting smaller and the more you accomplish, sometimes we can still feel more like imposters and frauds. Even if we’re doing more and we’re just wondering when we’re going to get found out.

So this leads you to continually to keep hustling and then, there’s this success paradox where with more success with warrants achievement, you ended up having more responsibilities, more on your plate.

Some of these guys have more people depending on them now and so what’s going to get left out? Their health. That’s a huge cost of their mind, their body. And then relationships as well. It’s not like these people, no one I’ve met has been lazy. I’ve never had to really encourage someone to say, Hey man, you know, you should, you should really start exercising a little more. You should, uh, you should maybe, you know, lay off the donuts.

I don’t really have those people, you know, there are people like that, so I don’t really have those people. Uh, I have friends who work with that crowd. I’m, I’m much too impatient for that. Right. And so, um. So these people that are good and they have those things that unintentionally, so a lot of times we’re working on a lot of structure.

We’re working on the 2% or I should say the 5% of the things, you know, they’re 85% of the way there, you know? And so we’re continually marching up to that 100%.  We’re doing things that are going to add an extra two and 3% to that 85% at a time. And so it’s, it’s those little things right there. So a lot of structure and, you know, strategies.

Norman Chella: [00:43:21] Yeah. I, I understand that dark side of success. Uh, loneliness is probably one of the largest factors. I mean, I’m not a, I’m not a licensed medical practitioner in any way, but it’s just, I guess it just from personal experience,

Julian Hayes II: [00:43:35] Yeah,

Norman Chella: [00:43:36] In the pursuit of a higher purpose or a mission or an ambition is one of the greatest, most powerful factors in affecting one’s mental health at least, or once mental psyche.

Julian Hayes II: [00:43:50] Yeah. You are. You’re spot on. Um, I recorded an episode. I don’t remember which one, but I recorded an episode where I shared a few stats about loneliness and the effects that it can have, on our health. You know, like something like emotions. Loneliness and compassion are two totally different things and emotions affects your heart.

Emotions can, you know, throw your system off whack. So things like your nervous system, your immune system, and your brain health, that can all be disjointed just from the type of emotions you carry with yourself. And you might be like me. Cause you know, loneliness is a big thing for me.

When you have a problem, when you have an issue that comes up, instead of reaching out for help, I go to a bunker, I clam up more and I just try to sit and figure it out more. And all that does is create usually more frustration. It extends the timeline of this problem being solved. If I were to just reach down, and had help.

And so that’s why, you know, that’s why it’s important no matter what stage of journey you’re on, to have that team that you can rely on those people that you can rely on or reach out to when little things like that come up. When you decide to pursue a higher purpose, to pursue something that’s different than the conventional norm. You’re essentially probably cutting off maybe 50 60 65% of people. I just made that number up, but it sounds about right. Uh, you’re cutting out a lot higher. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. See, you’re cutting out a lot of people because a lot of people, you know, if you ask them,  what’s your personal values?

What do you value most in life? A lot of people would you say. I just want to feel secure. I just want to, I just want to have a, I, you know, a pretty good job too. Uh, eat and do that and do the basic things. You know, nobody’s going to say, man, my personal values, I value freedom. I value venture, and I want to get the most out of this life.

You know? Not many people are going to say that. Most people don’t know what they want. You know, you ask them, what’s your goal? What do you want right now? I like, Oh, I dunno. Do you feel good?

And so and it’s understandable. So that’s why I like, this is a big piece that needs to be added to the paradigm as well, is that,  optimal health is just as much about your emotions as it is about nutrition.

And I think we sometimes  we put too much on the nutrition and the exercise side and not enough on the emotions and mindset side. And I know for me, I was very imbalanced. So my nutrition, I’m an athlete, so my nutrition and my exercising, it’s pretty good. It’s always been pretty good for over 10 years now that’s no problem.

But an area that I had to finally give some credence to, it was my mindset work. And my emotions work, my quote unquote feelings, you know, and, and that kind of stuff. Because you know, those little things can prevent you from taking the leap from good to great.

Norman Chella: [00:46:47] Yeah. That, it’s an all in one package. Right. Because we are dealing with our true selves.  Trying to optimize for that, trying to improve that in many different ways and not just focus on say, Oh, how many reps can you do at the gym? Uh, but also the mindset that you at in doing that or,  the influences around you, both positive and negative or, the team you would have would be there to support you as you’re going through, say, a lonely pursuit. But not so lonely in that it made sure it could be a pursuit that only you can pursue, but know that you are not alone in that there are other people just as ambitious as you are in their own unique manner,

Julian Hayes II: [00:47:24] Right?

Norman Chella: [00:47:25] in a specific direction.


Julian Hayes II: [00:47:27] Yeah. You know,  people can show you the path and that’s what you want. You, you want somebody to show you the path to be there with you, but then you have to ultimately decide to walk that path. And only you can decide to walk that path. Only you can decide to take that journey.

And, you know, for the longest time, I love to read and sometimes reading, it can become procrastination for me, and so I just want to, I just want to learn. I want to make sure the strategies right. I want to just keep learning and learning, but eventually at some point, you know, as a mentor reminded me.

He’s like, you know enough information. You’ve got enough. You’re good enough. You just got to take the action.  and go from there.  So yeah, you know, these emotions, this mindset work  it’s just one input to the system, and so  that ties back to  viewing ourselves as a system.

Norman Chella: [00:48:12] And I hope we can find many different ways to improve the system as a whole. Right epigenetically and genetically, and with all the habits and systems that I’m sure that you can provide, when you can take on a client and coaching. Now we are coming up on time, but I’ve got a couple of things that I do want to ask you.

First one is a segment called momentos, right? Do you have a memento that represents you.

Julian Hayes II: [00:48:41] Okay. Um,

Hmm. Okay.

man. Um.

Norman Chella: [00:48:54] It doesn’t have to be an object, right? It’s your definition of a memento.

Julian Hayes II: [00:48:59] yeah, yeah. It’s, um,  it’s really just,  Oh man. It’s kind of broad, but it’s really music.

Yeah. It’s really just music. I feel, um, you know,  music helped cured my loneliness. I always said music was a sibling I never had as a kid growing up. I just remember as a little boy, I would have music playing while playing video games.

And I would feel like I’m making friends, but they’re radio hosts the, with the, with the artist singing everything. So music is kind of my life force. Um, it’s, it’s, it’s part of my life force. So, I think I, I love music and yeah, so that’s kind of like my Memento.

Norman Chella: [00:49:39] And music in its entirety. And now a second part to that memento. I call it an external memento. Say that I want to carry a piece.  Or a, an item or object that is a memento of you. Right. And in your case, it’s music, right? So is there a song that you can think of that if I were to carry it with me, it would remind me of the wisdom that you have given me in this episode?

Julian Hayes II: [00:50:06] Oh man. I, so like a theme song

Norman Chella: [00:50:09] It could be a theme song. Okay.

Julian Hayes II: [00:50:11] cause that I have a bunch of, so, no, no. I do remember identity, duh, duh, duh, duh duh. Yeah. It’s a very catchy song. Yeah. But, um, Mmm. You know, I think it’s a Jamiroquai soul education. Not. The studio version is good, but if you want the full experience, you got to go to YouTube, type in Jamiroquai soul education Monterey jazz festival.

It is like 10 minutes, 10 minutes of bliss. It’s just, Oh man, it’s, it’s so good. Like. To hear all the instruments, hear that message. You know, it’s, it’s just very uplifting. You know, I played it before I got on here just to get myself in the best spirits. You know, we have all this uncertainty and fear going on right now.

And, um, that song was just like, soothes my soul. It gets me going, makes me just makes me happy, you know? And, um, that song’s just about being free and  finding your philosophy. And so, um, I love that song.

Norman Chella: [00:51:17] Okay. Jamiroquai, soul education Monterey, Jazz festival. Is there a specific year or

Julian Hayes II: [00:51:23] Oh, man. I think it’s 1995. I don’t remember, but I, I think it’s 95, but yeah. Um, Jamiroquai awesome. Awesome.

Norman Chella: [00:51:31] try and I’ll try and find it and if I, if I can’t find it, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll message you.

Julian Hayes II: [00:51:35] I’ll message it to you. Um, you know, before we, before we get off the call,

Norman Chella: [00:51:38] All right, of course, of course. And

Julian Hayes II: [00:51:41] I want to help with health. But I also, I want to make people really fall back in love with music.

I think music, you know, to a certain extent a little bit has devolved a little bit. I don’t, you know, so I don’t want to sound like the old guy here who’s like, Oh, he’s just saying that cause he’s older. You know, you’re one of those people now,

you know? But you know, just, just hear me out, you know? Yes.

Go listen to some older music. And you know. Keep an open mind.

Norman Chella: [00:52:09] well, I’m going to play that role. I’m not a fan of music currently being produced today, so, uh, I’ve always been, I’m always a bigger fan of like, uh, older music and, and jazz and blues, and also

Julian Hayes II: [00:52:20] yeah, yeah. They play more instruments to look like. I like, you know, I like some of the music that people make on their keyboards and everything, but nothing beats like just having, uh, an arrangement.

You know, that is just people playing the instrument there. You know, there’s just, it’s just beautiful.

You know. I’m sorry, I don’t get the same effects of just making something from a Mac book.

Not to knock it, not to knock it, cause this is a place for it. But I’m just saying, you know, there’s hierarchy to these things. There’s levels, you know? That’s all they know.

Norman Chella: [00:52:49] And the next bit is called walkaway wisdom. So say we walk away from this conversation now and I meet someone in need, or someone I can connect with, whether it’s a a child or an adult or an elderly person, what wisdom can I share with them that represents you?

Julian Hayes II: [00:53:06] Mmm.

Let’s do, can I give two, it’s a two parter.

Norman Chella: [00:53:14] Go for it.

Julian Hayes II: [00:53:15] Okay. Awesome. So the first one is to slow down to speed up.

Norman Chella: [00:53:19] Okay.

Julian Hayes II: [00:53:19] And the other part is to do it for the intention, not the attention.

Norman Chella: [00:53:25] Oh, okay. Okay. All right. Okay, so slow down to speed

Julian Hayes II: [00:53:29] to speak

and do it for the intention, not the attention. So my friends, I got that second line from my friend, he’s a, he’s an independent rapper. And so, um, I told him I’m going to steal that and just use it now cause I really love it cause it’s just, you know, um,

I think a lot of times sometimes we can get caught doing it.

You know, going about our days. Living a life that’s maybe for the intention. Maybe it’s just because that’s what we’re supposed to do, but are you really being intentional with what you’re doing? Are you being intentional with the relationships to conversations that you’re having? And so, um, and as a creator, you know,  that’s, that’s really stuck to me as a creator that, um, there’s certain things that we can create there, certain ways that we can say things, certain topics we can jump on that will give you a lot more attention to the algorithm.

But is it saying true to your word as a creator?

Norman Chella: [00:54:21] Yeah. I think of it as  if you are questioning an action that you’ve done, is the answer to the question “why did you do that action?”  parallel to your principles, which are, you know, a true mirrored version of yourself. And if it’s no. And the answer is no. Why are you doing it?

And therefore you stop. Right. Do it with more intent. Uh, there’s a lot more weight behind that, and I think that that makes things much more fulfilling. If you could do something for that, as opposed to seeking attention all the time. It’s

Julian Hayes II: [00:54:48] yeah. We like, we like good enrichening hardy food that just  soothes the soul here. We don’t want like, you know, airy, just, you know. I look at it as like, junk food, junk food information, junk food, filler conversations. We want good, deep, earthy conversations that  grounds us and, you know, it makes us feel something.

Norman Chella: [00:55:07] yeah. Like a conversation that makes you like 1% more transformed, right? Like, I, I like that, that for me, it’s like the rule, the 1% something rule, right? Do I want to be 1% empowered, happier, um, joyful etc. So, and, one unique question for you specifically. What is your favorite salsa dancing move?

Julian Hayes II: [00:55:29] Oh, man.

I don’t know the names. I don’t know the names of

Norman Chella: [00:55:35] Okay. Describe it to describe it to, uh, our dear friend.

Julian Hayes II: [00:55:38] Okay. Let’s see. So, um, you know, I have irrational confidence at times when I’m salsa dancing, right? So, I got about five good moves and, I’ve mastered those five good moves, right? And I do them a lot. And so let’s see.

You know, so for the salsa people out there, it’s like one, two, three, then the four is going to be silent, then five, six, seven, when you’re making your steps. Right? So. I’m stepping forward some and then I’m going to turn the girl, and then we’re going to do our basic thing again and then I’m going to spin myself.

While holding her hand up and then I’m going to do what we call a cross body walk, and she’s going to walk across from me. I’m going to open a path for her to walk by me. I have her left arm, I believe in my hand, and then I’m going to turn her as she’s spinning around and then I’m going to release her. And she’s going to spin.

And then I’m going to spin as well. And then we’ve got just a moment. Where were we doing a little freestyle? A little freestyle dancing. And this is where, like, I watched a few videos on the internet before I went. Right. And I’m going to try like my move. It’s like my freestyle dancing for a little bit, and then I’m going to hurry up and grab her hand back because I only got like 15 seconds of freestyling in me and there we’re going to get back.

But yeah, so, um, I love salsa dancing. Um.

You know, it’s, I was a super shy, socially anxious kid. So salsa dancing is so cool because, you know, as a guy, I have to go ask the lady for a dance. Um, you know, I even joked one time, I did it very proper. I was like, my lady, would you like to dance? You know, I did that.

And she’s, you know, she didn’t really laugh. She didn’t really get it, but, you know, that’s her problem.  You get out of your shell some. I did therapy a few years ago and, you know, I told the therapist, I was like, you know, I never seen anyone depressed on the dance floor.

Everyone is happy. Everyone is happy, you know, every, you know, no one’s discriminating. No one cares. Your politics. All they care about is, do you have a little rhythm? That’s all that matters. Can you stay on the beat? That’s all that matters. And I love that, you know? And so I think that is just, I think dancing is something that we all should do.

I think I talked to, I had a guest on hoot.  He wrote his book about the tango. Uh, and, um, salsa dancing applies to it as well. That, you know, it’s going to benefit your genes. I forgot what genes specifically, but it’s benefiting your health still. So not only are you going to be suave, you know, have a little more swagger to yourself as you’re walking around.

But you, but you are improving your health. This is a double whammy, you know? So if anything, you know, I leave you with, you can improve your health and you can also become a smooth criminal on the dance floor. One of the best

Norman Chella: [00:58:27] And that is an amazing note to end on. Julian, thank you so much. Where can we find you if we want to reach out to you for, you know, more info, more questions, et cetera.

Julian Hayes II: [00:58:37] Yeah. So if you are listening to this podcast now. Obviously you’ve got a podcast player, you’re familiar with podcasts. So, uh, just type in optimal health for busy entrepreneurs. That is my podcast where we are talking all things health and human performance related. It’s a lot of strategy on top of the health information because yeah, nobody just wants information and you don’t know what to do with it.

So there’s a lot of strategy involved as well. And my home base is the art of fitness and and you’ll have everything else there.

Norman Chella: [00:59:10] Awesome. And of course links to both your show and the art of fitness and life website will be in the show notes right below. Julian, thank you so much for coming on and I will talk to you soon.

Julian Hayes II: [00:59:23] Thank you much, man. This was a really fun interview.

Norman Chella: [00:59:26] And that is it. My chat with Julian Hayes II, health optimization coach and founder of the art of fitness and life. We went through a lot of topics, but you realize that there are a lot of connections between trying to optimize your health and trying to optimize something much more important.

Your mindset, your emotions, your feelings. These are things that are not really considered when you’re talking about how to become a better person or how to optimize your physical health because you are one character. You are an all in one package and you are capable of doing a lot more than you can think.

If you are much more aware of how your body functions, how you can optimize the things around you, how you can control the information that you can receive via environment, how you can reduce the negativity from the things around you. Big thanks to Julian for being a great person to talk to and you can always reach out to him into show notes right below.

I will be posting his contact details. He is a heavy LinkedIn user. So if you can find him on LinkedIn, that’s probably a great start. but as usual, all links in the description below, like his website. One huge takeaway from this talk. Please look in the mirror and take care of what is in front of you.

It’s you, your body, your mind, your thoughts, your emotions, everything that encompasses you. That is the entirety of your health right there in the mirror. That is what you’ll be waking up to and sleeping in every day. That is what you will be until the end of time, until 200 years into your life.

Because we are going for big numbers here and if you can optimize your health for that, then all will be well. Stay warm, stay lovely, and I’ll see you in the next episode. your foolish friend. Norm.